Nothing you don't already know about the Lions, but...

[gilly]

...this needs said after the 4TD performance of Owens AND Moss this week.

Martz and Kitna need to get either Williams or Johnson the ball a minimum of once per series.

It is a complete mystery to me why more plays aren't being called for Johnson - he outsizes and outleaps and outspeeds the majority of defense backs in the league. Same for Williams and HE brags about Johnson.

Love the quote from Rosenberg in the freep...I have nothing against Shaun McDonald. He's a nice player. But I'm 5-foot-10, and I could eat a Danish off of his head. Damn right...why was Kitna throwing to him at the end?

Dallas and the Pats run their offenses thru their top receivers. Why is this being lost on the Lions coaches?

Here's to a better game on Thanksgiving - we're eating later this year. My appetite will likely be less than normal after watching the game and maybe I won't gain as much weight.

[redwinghockeyfan]

They have 4 quality receivers who can get open and catch the ball. the problem as I see it is the line isn't giving Kitna enough time to throw the ball. Plus, they aren't running enough because they can't open a hole and the opposing coach knows it so they keep bringing the pass rush.

[PokerAndPucks]

Johnson has been limited most of the season with a bad back, but yes they should be getting him and Williams the ball more than they are.

What I want to know is how Martz got his rep as a genius. He gives up on the run way too early so teams can just drop everyone back and the d-line can pin their ears back and rush the QB. He refuses to use a TE or FB to help with blocking, so the OTs are left on an island and get beaten badly.

Jon Shitna is horrible. He's not a QB, he's a turnover machine. I don't care how tough he is, how good of a leader he is, a good QB doesn't try to force pass after pass into double and triple coverage.

The Lions need to get a good LT and move Backus to the right side. He struggles too much against the speed rushers, but I think that he would be a hell of a RT.

[JimIs60]

I think Johnsons back is ok. He landed on it yesterday with that TD pass and he got up fine. Supposedly the reason they don't go to CJ more is that they think the other teams will be focusing on him and that frees up the other receivers and they go to those guys. Still, if that would've been Johnson in the end zone on that late pass to McDonald, he would've caught it. McDonald would've have had to climb the defenders back to get it.

[octopus]

Kitna's so horrible? OK, he had a couple of unfortunate decisions late, but he also had some horrible drops out there, including the last giveaway that ended our last gasp. He also had 377 yards passing, which isn't awful, no matter how you slice it.

Not to mention, he takes a terrible beating every game, but he gets up and keeps fighting to the end. He's not the greatest talent in the game, but he's not surrounded by the greatest talent, either. He doesn't call the plays, they have a genius coordinator who gets paid the big bucks to handle that.

I like Kitna better than any QB we've had in town, since...ummm...wow, it's hard to think back that far. I guess Scott Mitchell's one good year, around '95, when he was throwing to the red-hot Herman Moore and Brett Perriman. That season was a fluke, obviously, as Mitchell quickly succumbed to Lionitis and had to be dumped, for the next Great White Hope.

Which reminds me...isn't it time the Lions drafted a black QB who can run and pass? Here's how it will work: the new UM head coach will recruit one, from wherever the good teams find these incredible athletes, and then they will let him run wild at Michigan. The Lions will draft him, and he will lead Detroit to their first Super Bowl since 1957.

I don't want to be racist about this...if we find a white guy who can run and pass like a Vince Young, Troy Smith, Michael Vick, etc., go ahead on and take him, if he's the best athlete available.

So, weird tangent, but getting back to Kitna...how many times have we seen the great Brett Favre blow football games over the years, by throwing into coverage? Many, many times. Is Favre the toughest, smartest, most courageous QB of our time? Probably. Is he having an unbelievably great season this year, despite his age and cumulative bodily-injuries? Definitely. Good thing he didn't listen, when everyone was telling him he was washed-up, it was over, and he should retire and stop embarrassing himself, at various points in the past two years.

Not saying Kitna is Favre, favre from it, but he does have a big heart like Brett, and a ton of courage on the football field. If he has a decent day Thursday, we'll probably still lose, but it could be an interesting game if he's hitting his receivers, Jones can run the ball, and our defense plays the way it did most of the game this past Sunday. A couple of patented Favre-picks wouldn't hurt, either. He will throw into coverage, so be ready, boys.

[PokerAndPucks]

Kitna's so horrible? OK, he had a couple of unfortunate decisions late, but he also had some horrible drops out there, including the last giveaway that ended our last gasp. He also had 377 yards passing, which isn't awful, no matter how you slice it.

A couple of unfortunate decisions of late? Try all of last year and most of this year. He turns the ball over more than any other player in the NFL, and it's because he's not smart enough to not throw into double and triple coverage on a regular basis or get rid of the ball before he's about ready to get killed. A lot of the sacks that he takes are his fault for holding onto the ball way too long and running around like a moron, which also leads to his league leading fumble totals.

Which reminds me...isn't it time the Lions drafted a black QB who can run and pass? Here's how it will work: the new UM head coach will recruit one, from wherever the good teams find these incredible athletes, and then they will let him run wild at Michigan. The Lions will draft him, and he will lead Detroit to their first Super Bowl since 1957.

I don't want to be racist about this...if we find a white guy who can run and pass like a Vince Young, Troy Smith, Michael Vick, etc., go ahead on and take him, if he's the best athlete available.

Looks like we have Rob Parker or Drew Sharp posting on our forums!

Run and pass like Vick and Troy Smith? You mean Vick that couldn't run a pro style offense, or Smith who is so great that he went late int he 5th round and almost got cut? Young has done well so far, but until he proves that he can be more of a passer and less of a runner and win on a consistent basis, he's just another guy who had a lot of success in college who may or may not make it in the pros.

The NFL is not college. Your QB has to be able to go through all of his progressions before deciding to take off, not look for his first one or two options and then run like Vick did. For one, that makes it really easy to shut down a passing game. Two, NFL linebackers are a lot faster than college linebackers. It's not as easy to run by them like a college QB can do.

If those types of QBs could make it in the NFL, Vick, Kordell Stewart, et. al. would have been Pro Bowlers every year and Super Bowl MVPs. And before you say Vick went to some Pro Bowls, he got in because of hype not talent.

[octopus]

Kitna's so horrible? OK, he had a couple of unfortunate decisions late, but he also had some horrible drops out there, including the last giveaway that ended our last gasp. He also had 377 yards passing, which isn't awful, no matter how you slice it.

A couple of unfortunate decisions of late? Try all of last year and most of this year. He turns the ball over more than any other player in the NFL, and it's because he's not smart enough to not throw into double and triple coverage on a regular basis or get rid of the ball before he's about ready to get killed. A lot of the sacks that he takes are his fault for holding onto the ball way too long and running around like a moron, which also leads to his league leading fumble totals.

Which reminds me...isn't it time the Lions drafted a black QB who can run and pass? Here's how it will work: the new UM head coach will recruit one, from wherever the good teams find these incredible athletes, and then they will let him run wild at Michigan. The Lions will draft him, and he will lead Detroit to their first Super Bowl since 1957.

I don't want to be racist about this...if we find a white guy who can run and pass like a Vince Young, Troy Smith, Michael Vick, etc., go ahead on and take him, if he's the best athlete available.

Looks like we have Rob Parker or Drew Sharp posting on our forums!

Run and pass like Vick and Troy Smith? You mean Vick that couldn't run a pro style offense, or Smith who is so great that he went late int he 5th round and almost got cut? Young has done well so far, but until he proves that he can be more of a passer and less of a runner and win on a consistent basis, he's just another guy who had a lot of success in college who may or may not make it in the pros.

The NFL is not college. Your QB has to be able to go through all of his progressions before deciding to take off, not look for his first one or two options and then run like Vick did. For one, that makes it really easy to shut down a passing game. Two, NFL linebackers are a lot faster than college linebackers. It's not as easy to run by them like a college QB can do.

If those types of QBs could make it in the NFL, Vick, Kordell Stewart, et. al. would have been Pro Bowlers every year and Super Bowl MVPs. And before you say Vick went to some Pro Bowls, he got in because of hype not talent.

LOL! That was funny stuff, PP. Don't forget to weigh in on the "Affirmative Black-tion" thread, too!

What a ridiculous idea I had this morning, that there are black QB's in the football world who can both run and pass. I must have been still asleep, and dreaming.

[stillsomeguy]

If I was forced to get my J.D. from, say, UD-Mercy or Cooley Law because other, less-qualified individuals were taking up slots at UM Law, I’d be pissed (unless my decision to attend Cooley or UDM Law was more of a money-thing, in which case I wouldn’t care).

[PokerAndPucks]

Kitna's so horrible? OK, he had a couple of unfortunate decisions late, but he also had some horrible drops out there, including the last giveaway that ended our last gasp. He also had 377 yards passing, which isn't awful, no matter how you slice it.

A couple of unfortunate decisions of late? Try all of last year and most of this year. He turns the ball over more than any other player in the NFL, and it's because he's not smart enough to not throw into double and triple coverage on a regular basis or get rid of the ball before he's about ready to get killed. A lot of the sacks that he takes are his fault for holding onto the ball way too long and running around like a moron, which also leads to his league leading fumble totals.

Which reminds me...isn't it time the Lions drafted a black QB who can run and pass? Here's how it will work: the new UM head coach will recruit one, from wherever the good teams find these incredible athletes, and then they will let him run wild at Michigan. The Lions will draft him, and he will lead Detroit to their first Super Bowl since 1957.

I don't want to be racist about this...if we find a white guy who can run and pass like a Vince Young, Troy Smith, Michael Vick, etc., go ahead on and take him, if he's the best athlete available.

Looks like we have Rob Parker or Drew Sharp posting on our forums!

Run and pass like Vick and Troy Smith? You mean Vick that couldn't run a pro style offense, or Smith who is so great that he went late int he 5th round and almost got cut? Young has done well so far, but until he proves that he can be more of a passer and less of a runner and win on a consistent basis, he's just another guy who had a lot of success in college who may or may not make it in the pros.

The NFL is not college. Your QB has to be able to go through all of his progressions before deciding to take off, not look for his first one or two options and then run like Vick did. For one, that makes it really easy to shut down a passing game. Two, NFL linebackers are a lot faster than college linebackers. It's not as easy to run by them like a college QB can do.

If those types of QBs could make it in the NFL, Vick, Kordell Stewart, et. al. would have been Pro Bowlers every year and Super Bowl MVPs. And before you say Vick went to some Pro Bowls, he got in because of hype not talent.

LOL! That was funny stuff, PP. Don't forget to weigh in on the "Affirmative Black-tion" thread, too!

What a ridiculous idea I had this morning, that there are black QB's in the football world who can both run and pass. I must have been still asleep, and dreaming.

None of them that you named can, with the exception of MAYBE Young.

My point was, the problem with running QBs is they tend to rely on their legs too much to be effective in the NFL. McNabb is one of the few exceptions that I can think of, and he can't really run anymore.